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| bubinga chipped out... http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=47485 |
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | bubinga chipped out... |
The figured bubinga I'm using is pretty chippy. While routering the binding channel, the bubinga chipped out. At that point the bearing fell into the chipped out areas and caused the router to take a bite out of the back. I think that if I make the neck heel wide I can hide the chips in the side, because they would be covered by the heel. I think my alternative for the gouged place in the back is to either fill it with dust or route another channel for somewhat wide purfling in the back. I intend to have radial purfling in the top with bocote and two black lines. I could do the same in the back. I have done this before and it looks quite nice. My only hesitation is the possibility of risking more chip outs... On the other hand, I think a filled area would be noticeable. ...what to do...? |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: bubinga chipped out... |
You could also do an inlay that blends in with the heel cap. It would look better if it was actually continuous with the heel, but then it's not to easy to remove the neck later... |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: bubinga chipped out... |
Customer guitar? For the side you'll need to find some scrap that matches very well or find the chipped out pieces and glue them back in. Don't use CA it will darken the glue spot and will be noticeable. For the back your only save really is a wider purfling line or some sort of inlay as Dennis suggested. If it's for you, do what your happy with. |
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: bubinga chipped out... |
Rod - This is my 13 or 14th guitar, depending on which of the two I'm working on will be finished first. At this point I have yet to sell a guitar. At some point I likely will, on spec, not commission. Too much pressure... I hadn't thought of replacing the chip outs with scrap... There's no way I could find the chipped out pieces, but I may be able to match some scrap and sand it level. If CA darkens, I think the LMI glue I typically use will likely lighten... I have noticed that wiping the bubinga with naptha shows that when I apply finish it will darken considerably. I wonder if it would be that noticeable...? I never think, "that's good enough". I tend to be a perfectionist, which can make guitar building kinda frustrating sometimes. I've generally been pretty satisfied with my builds, but this one has been a bit challenging. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: bubinga chipped out... |
Titebond or hide glue for the new pieces should be invisible. I've always admired your resilience Steve! Like you also mentioned, if you bring the heel cap down below the binding line you'll be able to hide any repair.....assuming you're making a full width heel... |
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: bubinga chipped out... |
Thanks for the resilience comment, Rod. If there is anything this stuff teaches you it's patience... I wasn't planning a full width heel... but, that's where the resilience comes in... |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: bubinga chipped out... |
I like the look of full width heels when there is a cutaway. If you fill the chip outs, sand smooth, and then route a half depth purfling ledge rather than a full depth ledge you wouldn't risk chipping out the sides again. A simple (BWB?) purfling inside the binding might be all you would need. To make bubinga a nice red color I have used boiled linseed oil and allowed it to dry a couple weeks before applying lacquer. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: bubinga chipped out... |
Are you following the appropriate climb cut path as can be found on stewmacs site? |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: bubinga chipped out... |
meddlingfool wrote: Are you following the appropriate climb cut path as can be found on stewmacs site? Something to consider. I chalk the directions on the back and top as a reminder. Another thing to consider is clean and sharp edges on the bit. That said, there is so much variability in wood, things just happen. I always cringe at channel routing. If I have ANY doubts about the bit, buy a new one. Good news in ur case is a wide heel will fix this. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: bubinga chipped out... |
The last couple of posts seem to have been advocating using the "SM" method for binding ledge cut directions. This seems to have been "designed" mainly for the purpose of keeping a clean cut on the soundboard, but don't help with the damage router rotation direction can do to the sides of the guitar, and can create the chip-out problem with wavy grained woods like the above. If the direction of any part of the router pass means the bit rotation is away from the body on the cutting side, it is tending to lift out chips of wood like this, which the bearing can then of course fall into. As a result of this reminder in another post (http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=47334) Quote: Climb milling is from the outside to the inside while conventional milling is from the inside to the outside. Climb milling pushes wood inward and together,conventional pushes out and apart. At one time I followed the traditional patterns until it was pointed out by Trevor Gore that climb milling did away with all that and was very effective. I used one direction only (clockwise) to route my last ledges in very chippy satinwood very successfully, after several problems with a previous build in a sister set (and also with a figured Bubinga set).A sharp bit, (preferably a downcut bit like SM's current offering?), seems to take care of a clean cut on the soundboard edges. I realises this goes against a "long standing convention", but for me it has worked very well after having problems when religiously following that convention for several builds. |
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: bubinga chipped out... |
Colin - Just looked at your link to Waddy's experience. ...Makes me feel better if it also happened to him, as I respect his abilities very much. I used a relatively new router bit (Stew Mac) and thought I was doing a climb cut. I think that the wood itself was going to be prone to chipping at that location. After this happened I finished the routing very carefully using multiple shallow passes. I think (after I have had time to give it some thought) that I will see if I can patch the side chips with scrap, use a wider heel, as necessary, and take the risk and carefully router the back for purfling. I learned a long time ago that the trick is to either be able to fix mistakes or make them look like you intended... |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: bubinga chipped out... |
Colin, I think you're saying that you climb cut the whole thing. Steve, did you cut from the cutaway going inwards, or the other way? Because a climb cut would start at the cutaway. |
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: bubinga chipped out... |
Ed - I started the cut at the middle of the upper bout and came toward the neck, but then continued to the cutaway... |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: bubinga chipped out... |
I think that was the problem. The cut should have started where the masking tape is, starting from the left and going backwards to the right. Those pieces that tore out would have had their ends gently nibbled down as the bit worked its way across them. Sometime with potentially tricky wood, we climb cut the whole thing... |
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